Satyendra Patra: how's preparation of the 4oth? you must be busy
Ty Hardaway: eh, i farm it out
Satyendra Patra: nice
Ty Hardaway: most of it - i do oversight
Satyendra Patra: the boss
Ty Hardaway: hey, what is your gmail account? i remembered marcy.saty, but what is yours
Ty Hardaway: the boss in leiu of a REAL boss
Satyendra Patra: saty.patra***
Ty Hardaway: that's what I thought
Ty Hardaway: the NYer article makes me want to start a school or move to france
Ty Hardaway: we're screwed
Satyendra Patra: yes we are
Satyendra Patra: moving to france is worse
Satyendra Patra: they have their own problems
Ty Hardaway: they sure do
Satyendra Patra: prehaps we need a technocratic school
Satyendra Patra: religious folks need not apply
Ty Hardaway: sure - but ALL religious can apply and are encouraged
Ty Hardaway: we teach respect of all
Satyendra Patra: that is a problem
Ty Hardaway: yes, but we can't weed religion - what kind of liberal would be be :)
Satyendra Patra: to fight fascism, you have to be against them
Ty Hardaway: i know...
Satyendra Patra: to fight fanaticism, you have to be against them
Ty Hardaway: i know...
Ty Hardaway: to fight fiction, you have to be for reality
Satyendra Patra: yep
Ty Hardaway: when people sneeze, I say "voodoo"
Ty Hardaway: people say, "why did you say voodoo?"
Ty Hardaway: I say it's the same as "bless you" - same to me
Satyendra Patra: yeah
Ty Hardaway: it's crazy, man
Ty Hardaway: we have few choices - fighting is looking like our only option
Ty Hardaway: democrats as an organization are too weak
Ty Hardaway: liberals are lazy
Ty Hardaway: we need structure, man
Satyendra Patra: i don't know - i am by not means an atheist or even angnostic but the religious right is making an outright denunciation a tempting thing
Satyendra Patra: lazy yes
Satyendra Patra: i think there is a difference in the american dream
Satyendra Patra: the liberal dream is a personal dream - to do the best for oneself and one's family
Satyendra Patra: the religious right dream is a social
Ty Hardaway: i have firmly moved into OUTRIGHT DENUNCIATION - in set-reset theory, it's my only move
Satyendra Patra: they want to convert everything to their way of thinking
Satyendra Patra: that is "success" for them
Ty Hardaway: i think they are both social dreams, actually. the liberal dream is the "good for us all" dream - the conservative right dream is "what's good for me is what's good for us all" - subtle actually -- we agree
Ty Hardaway: i wouldn't call liberals selfish per se
Ty Hardaway: they/we are TOO caring at times
Satyendra Patra: not selfish
Satyendra Patra: they are willing to live in a place where differences exist as long as those difference don't hinder their own dreams
Satyendra Patra: not the christian right
Ty Hardaway: unfortunately, we now HAVE to get tough, nasty and mean -- ORGANIZED
Satyendra Patra: they are different from regular conservatives
Ty Hardaway: absolutely (pun)
Ty Hardaway: end times
Ty Hardaway: god's will
Ty Hardaway: predetermination
Satyendra Patra: lol
Ty Hardaway: vs
Ty Hardaway: ozone
Ty Hardaway: global equity
Ty Hardaway: peace
Satyendra Patra: maybe we should start and ozone cult
Satyendra Patra: :)
Satyendra Patra: and write a new creationg story
Ty Hardaway: a chapter in my advisor's book (gard advisor) is called "how to start your own cult"
Satyendra Patra: on the first day, ozone was created
Ty Hardaway: he's a persuasion expert
Ty Hardaway: the christian right uses the techniques play by play
Satyendra Patra: yeah, they are quite smart
Ty Hardaway: smart, committed, well-funded, long-term thinking, etc.
Ty Hardaway: all the tools for success
Satyendra Patra: the foundation of all this is actually apathy in the citizens
Ty Hardaway: true
Satyendra Patra: as long as people don't care, they can be persuaded by these means
Satyendra Patra: they are not going to go look for the truth
Ty Hardaway: i guess it has to get worse for the majority, personally, for people to take action, but then the road back to the middle will be really difficult
Ty Hardaway: "support the troops"
Ty Hardaway: "these colors don't run"
Ty Hardaway: Freedom Frieds
Ty Hardaway: Fries
Satyendra Patra: i don't think there is any other way
Satyendra Patra: so teaches history
Ty Hardaway: All classic attitude and persuasion techniques -- pure social psychology
Satyendra Patra: yep
Satyendra Patra: hitler used it
Ty Hardaway: so we will suffer in the interim - probably not us personally
Ty Hardaway: yes the parallels to nazi germany are astounding
Satyendra Patra: i would not count on us not suffering
Ty Hardaway: every google: bush hitler
Ty Hardaway: agreed
Ty Hardaway: but others will suffer much more
Satyendra Patra: the foundation for the "world economy" is quite fragile
Ty Hardaway: we'll suffer cerebrially more than anything
Ty Hardaway: our spirits will suffer
Satyendra Patra: that's for sure
Ty Hardaway: we will feel insult
Ty Hardaway: outrage
Ty Hardaway: breathe nasty air
Ty Hardaway: be bombarded with propaganda
Ty Hardaway: watch our children become republican accountant lawyers
Satyendra Patra: but i don't see any clear alternative leader in the liberal side
Satyendra Patra: clinton?
Satyendra Patra: who?
Ty Hardaway: liberal is such a bad "brand" now
Satyendra Patra: they might
Ty Hardaway: "progressive" is dead
Ty Hardaway: We need to form the New Right
Ty Hardaway: Right as in 'correct' not direction
Satyendra Patra: what if they start telling us that we will go to hell because we are not christians
Ty Hardaway: there is no hell
Ty Hardaway: it's a fairy tale
Satyendra Patra: yeah
Ty Hardaway: prove it
Satyendra Patra: they will be like
Satyendra Patra: remember the early 90s
Satyendra Patra: clinton having blowjobs
Satyendra Patra: that was hell
Ty Hardaway: good for him
Ty Hardaway: if that was hell i hope all our US soldiers in Iraq go to that hell
Satyendra Patra: lol
Ty Hardaway: clinton having blowjobs
Ty Hardaway: my answer: grow up
Ty Hardaway: grow up you sniveling cowards
Ty Hardaway: dean is fighting
Satyendra Patra: i can see one trend that will derail the christian right
Ty Hardaway: i've asked him to keep fighting
Satyendra Patra: in a decade or so
Ty Hardaway: there is not one trend - except for scandel
Ty Hardaway: but they control all information - or soon will
Satyendra Patra: yeah but that will not matter much if the population dynamic changes dramatically
Satyendra Patra: like if the there is a significant hispanic and muslim population increase in the next decade
Satyendra Patra: christian right is a largly white phenomenon
Ty Hardaway: i know. they are taking NPR, PBS, the universities, etc.
Ty Hardaway: yes, but there are huge developing pockets in hispanic and black evangelical
Ty Hardaway: it
Ty Hardaway: is
Ty Hardaway: scary
Satyendra Patra: yes. but what about muslims
Ty Hardaway: bush and co are courting them
Ty Hardaway: what about the dirty terrorists? we should deport or kill them.
Ty Hardaway: see?
Satyendra Patra: yeah. but only while their population is relatively small
Satyendra Patra: that can change
Satyendra Patra: look at britain
Ty Hardaway: it is not difficult to express outrage w/o looking like a kook
Satyendra Patra: france
Ty Hardaway: yes, WORLDWIDE this is happening
Ty Hardaway: and it will impact the US
Ty Hardaway: meanwhile China is waiting...
Ty Hardaway: waiting...
Ty Hardaway: and buying our debt...
Ty Hardaway: and waiting...
Ty Hardaway: the experiment is at its end
Ty Hardaway: we predicted that communism would eat itself
Satyendra Patra: at the right time, they will want us to bail them out so that they can bail us out
Ty Hardaway: democracy too
Ty Hardaway: rampant, uncontrolled democracy (w/o proper checks and balances) is doomed
Ty Hardaway: "democracy" note quotation marks
Satyendra Patra: exactly
Satyendra Patra: that sort of democracy is called apathy
Ty Hardaway: so instead of welcoming change, diversity, etc.
Ty Hardaway: we become total xenophobes, isolationists, arogant pigs
Ty Hardaway: but we have military might second to none...
Ty Hardaway: ...but China builds and waits...
Satyendra Patra: yeah but so did britain, germany and russia at point or another
Ty Hardaway: The Romans
Ty Hardaway: The Greeks
Ty Hardaway: The Spanish
Satyendra Patra: yep
Ty Hardaway: So when we need China to bail us out, we will have control of all oil passage...
Satyendra Patra: i am not opposed to china being the dominant economy
Ty Hardaway: you have no choice!
Satyendra Patra: yeah, but i am not sorry about that either
Ty Hardaway: agreed
Ty Hardaway: fortunately (or unfortunately), my life is 'bout half over.
Ty Hardaway: brennan and your kids will really have to duke it out
Satyendra Patra: true
Satyendra Patra: see that battle is at a qutie different plane
Satyendra Patra: it is not about being a liberal or religous conservative
Satyendra Patra: it is about having skills
Satyendra Patra: that are relevant at that time
Satyendra Patra: and the way things are going, it does not look that promising for the us
Satyendra Patra: or our kids that is
Ty Hardaway: yeah, that scares the shit out of me
Ty Hardaway: i'm giving this to my dear daughter
Ty Hardaway: fuck!
Satyendra Patra: but that is almost unavoidable
Satyendra Patra: it is a natural phenomenon
Satyendra Patra: change
Satyendra Patra: what goes up must come down
Ty Hardaway: truly i believe that when Bush I uttered New World Order - he was talking some serious shit. much more serious and long-term and permanent than we ever gave him credit for.
Satyendra Patra: yeah the world has always been ruled by techonology
Satyendra Patra: but now that scope is much larger
Satyendra Patra: guns, germs and steel multiplied millions times over
Ty Hardaway: technology? ideology!
Ty Hardaway: see: http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_timeline_of_the_2003_invasion_of_iraq&key_events=DSM
Satyendra Patra: ideology will always lose
Satyendra Patra: ask hitler
Ty Hardaway: he was close to jumping the hurdle - madness struck
Ty Hardaway: i don't disagree with you though
Ty Hardaway: ideology drives/creates technology - governments/specific adminstrations develop specific plans (patriot act) and weapons (satellite warfare) - it's related
Ty Hardaway: closely related
Satyendra Patra: but in the larger scheme of things, that is really temporary
Satyendra Patra: it will last a few hundred years perhpas at best
Ty Hardaway: true
Satyendra Patra: eventually technology is all about technology for its own sake
Ty Hardaway: well, the way we're ruining our livable environment, we all might have to ban together to survive
Ty Hardaway: this is funny: thechnology and ideology
Satyendra Patra: yeah, even when the earth as we know it desappears
Ty Hardaway: we type IMs to each other, right?
Ty Hardaway: and they are all logged in at NSA
Ty Hardaway: :)
Satyendra Patra: lol
Satyendra Patra: yeah
Satyendra Patra: but tech exists
Satyendra Patra: but who has the time
Satyendra Patra: to snoop of some low leverl banter
Ty Hardaway: exactly
Ty Hardaway: but, put the right combinations of words together and you raise your chances of "getting attention" - the spiders are always trolling
Satyendra Patra: true
Satyendra Patra: it will be an interesting world in the next 10 years
Ty Hardaway: i cannot imagine
Ty Hardaway: exponential change
Satyendra Patra: yeah
Ty Hardaway: and the religious conservatives want it to all look like the idealic Norman Rockwell 1950s.
Satyendra Patra: lol
Satyendra Patra: far from it
Satyendra Patra: it will be more like a sci fi movie
Ty Hardaway: it's so crazy
Satyendra Patra: with lots of poverty at one end
Satyendra Patra: and lots of technology at the other
Ty Hardaway: a really bad sci fi movie
Satyendra Patra: yep
Ty Hardaway: and small pockets of grand wealth
Satyendra Patra: and the two will be fighting it out
Satyendra Patra: poverty will be terrorism
Ty Hardaway: no, the grandly wealthy will hire other poor (military, nat'l guard) to keep the peace
Ty Hardaway: "fighting" it out - but hidden from the overlords!
Ty Hardaway: we have a screenplay in here somewhere
Satyendra Patra: lol
Satyendra Patra: star wars
Satyendra Patra: empire
Satyendra Patra: jedis
Satyendra Patra: resistance
Ty Hardaway: i can always count on our conversations to cheer me up!
Satyendra Patra: lol
Ty Hardaway: Darth Vader = dick cheney
Satyendra Patra: lol
Ty Hardaway: oh well, it is on our shoulders to get some positive traction on change, i suppose
Satyendra Patra: yep
Satyendra Patra: but it is a lot of small steps
Satyendra Patra: insignificant by themselves
Ty Hardaway: well, when you sneeze and i say, "voodoo" you'll know why
Satyendra Patra: yup
Ty Hardaway: open a few eyes, challenge assumptions, etc.
Satyendra Patra: yep
Ty Hardaway: saddens me that i won't be able to open history texts from, say, the year 3030 and see what happened (or, at least, what the spin will be)
Satyendra Patra: yeah
Ty Hardaway: O well...something to ponder, my brilliant friend
Ty Hardaway: you certainly keep me alive...it will be great to have you here again
Satyendra Patra: if we ponder too much, we go nuts though
Satyendra Patra: yes it will great to be back
Ty Hardaway: that's why we need each other - for sanity
Satyendra Patra: it might be as early as aug 1
Ty Hardaway: i'll be here
Satyendra Patra: agreed
Ty Hardaway: subtle balancing act: pondering/action/sanity/apathy
Satyendra Patra: yes, quite a bit of selection
Satyendra Patra: right now i am ignoring most news
Satyendra Patra: for instance
Ty Hardaway: me too!
Satyendra Patra: focusing on health issue like diet, exercise etc
Ty Hardaway: good for you (and all your loved ones)
Satyendra Patra: exactly
Satyendra Patra: can't croak at 40
Ty Hardaway: keep all of your eyes open though, count on us
Satyendra Patra: there will be no time to ponder
Ty Hardaway: i'll be 40 in four months!
Ty Hardaway: that may be for the best, Saty...
Ty Hardaway: can i publish this thread in my blog?
Satyendra Patra: sure
Ty Hardaway: later, gator
Ty Hardaway: say hey to Marcy
Satyendra Patra: lator
Ty Hardaway: :)
Satyendra Patra: yep and same to b and a